Title: Transcript, Jesse Prince interview, Danish TV, DR2, 6/12/99 (http://www.xenu.net)
Author: Xenubat@primenet.com (Bat Child (Sue M.))
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 02:27:44 GMT

Real Video available at:



"Med Scientology i Bakspejlet", Danish TV, DR2, 6/12/99:


(woman announcer speaking in Danish so I couldn't understand what she


JESSE PRINCE (caption--Jesse Prince, Ex-Scientologist):  I found that
I was living my life in fear--fear of something that was almost
intangible. And because I was living in fear, I really couldn't
operate. I really couldn't be a member of this society. I couldn't
realize my potential because I was always afraid. And I realized that,
um, that if I broke my silence, I would break my fear. 

TOM HEINEMANN (interviewer):  You left Scientology in 1992, but not

until six years later you started to criticize the organization. What
took you so long?

JESSE PRINCE:  Well I was under threat--at the time, I was married and
both myself and my wife were under the threat of Scientology that
should we ever speak out or say anything about our experiences in
Scientology, that my wife would never speak to her father or her
sister again. And they were both in Scientology and she very much
loved her father. And because of that we agreed not to speak.

TOM HEINEMANN:  You signed a document saying that you promised not to

speak bad about Scientology.



JESSE PRINCE:  Well, at the time that I signed that document, I was
being held prisoner by Scientology at Gilman Hot Springs in
California. Under guard, armed guard, video surveillance, security
sensor equipment. And I was held there for so long, and then one day,
they come and they say, "You can leave. All you have to do is sign
this." I didn't even read it, I just signed it. My wife didn't read it
either, she signed it and we left. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  You told us that you received numerous threats against
your life. Where do you think these threats come from? 

JESSE PRINCE:  Um, I received at least five, five or six death
threats. I know exactly where they come from. They come from the

senior authorities of Scientology paying private investigators to do
psychological warfare on its critics.

TOM HEINEMANN:  It's a hard allegation.

JESSE PRINCE:  But it's true.

ARON MASON (caption--"Aron Mason, Scientology"):  No, no threats have
been made against Jesse Prince on his life, and on the contrary, Jesse
Prince has made threats on the lives of Scientologists and that's one
reason why we feel we have to take him seriously, because other people
who have made threats sometimes carried them out and actually came
into our churches with guns. And it's that kind of extremism that can
be, uh, can be fostered by, by sensationalism. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  Why do you think, then, that the FBI is keeping a
surveillance on Jesse Prince?

ARON MASON:  I've never heard that before and frankly I don't believe
that. I think that's another piece of Jesse Prince fantasy. I think
it's unfortunate that that's the direction he feels he has to go. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  When you look at the Internet, you can see a lot of
ex-Scientologists that use, are using words like "Scientology Kills",
"brainwash" and so on. Are you not doing exactly the same thing as you
accuse Scientology for?

JESSE PRINCE:  Well, I can hardly see how I could be doing that by
just speaking out and saying what my experiences are. And then also I
would somewhat object to the ex-Scientologists saying "Scientology
Kills" because, quite frankly, it is people who have never been into
Scientology or heard of it ever before that are saying these things.
And this is the way they feel based on what they've read and what they
now understand Scientology is really all about. That didn't really
come from ex-Scientologists to my understanding; it came from just
regular people finding out about Scientology and the people they

TOM HEINEMANN:  Why should they do that?

JESSE PRINCE:  Because it's a cancer within the society. It's a
disease whereby, you know, young, idealistic people are brought into
Scientology; they're separated from their families. Everything that
they could possibly own or have endowed to them such as credit, um,
trust funds or whatever, are taken by Scientology. They take huge
amounts of money from people.

ARON MASON:  We did not start this conflict with Jesse Prince. for
years he was--he had gone his way, we had gone ours. He considered
himself a Scientologist; we were happy to have him, whether he was on
staff or not. Um, but we do not desire a conflict with Mr. Prince, and
we frankly only said anything about him to the degree we had to defend
ourselves. And that is, that is the reality. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  To an outsider like me, for instance, it seems like
it's a world full of hatred.

JESSE PRINCE:  Well, it depends on what world you're talking about
again--the world of Scientology itself is a world of hatred. Um, from
my very beginning experience in Scientology, I--we learned to refer to
people that were not Scientologists as being "raw meat", "wogs", which
is a term that means "Worthy Oriental Gentleman" who doesn't have a
clue about himself, spirituality or anything like that. So from the
very inception, through association with Scientology, you start to
learn to put other people down.

TOM HEINEMANN:  Yes, but I mean also the hate from ex-Scientologists
or, as you say, people who haven't even been members of Scientology.
This is a very hateful war going on against these two groups.

JESSE PRINCE:  Yeah, well, you know, people are enraged that within a
free society, you could have something that is sanctioned by a
government as a religion that acts as a Mafia intelligence-type
organization that terrorizes. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  When you were in Scientology, you visited Denmark
several times. What was the purpose of these visits? 

JESSE PRINCE:  In one of the very first out-of-the-country jobs that I
had to do was to come here and extort mission holders--mission holders
being people that have a small franchise and license to use
Scientology--that had accumulated money. I was sent here along with a
group of senior people that are still within Scientology to extort
them out of their money so that the money could be taken and sent to
either Liechtenstein banks or Cyprus banks that were set up because
there was a real threat in America that the IRS, the Internal Revenue
Service, was gonna raid Scientology and seize its bank accounts. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  So you collected money in Denmark which wasn't put
into the official accounts in Denmark?  


TOM HEINEMANN:  So you actually broke the Danes' law also?


TOM HEINEMANN:  Is this, to your knowledge, still going on?

JESSE PRINCE:  Absolutely. Nothing ever changes in Scientology. By its
very nature and policy, it is unable to change. 

ARON MASON:  To make allegations about the church's finances now, Mr.
Prince, who has not been a position of responsibility in the church
for nearly 15 years, and who hasn't even worked for the church for
more than 7 years, is, uh, very specious. He's not in any position to

TOM HEINEMANN:  Before this interview, Scientology gave us a very
personal and what I would call very intimidating file on you. Why
would they do that?

JESSE PRINCE:  Again, this is done based on advice from Scientology's
founder, L. Ron Hubbard, in order to silence a critic or anyone that
is disagreeing with Scientology. You get intimate information on the
person, or you manufacture information that will create fear in the
person and silence them into submission. 

ARON MASON:  Jesse Prince has tried to elevate himself to a position
where he can comment on the moral character, the nature of
Scientology. And, and for that, we felt it was relevant to talk about
his moral character, because he called it into question by saying,
"I'm an authority on Scientology", which he isn't. Um, these
statements that we have provided, or that were provided, um, were from
him, by and large, and unfortunately reflect the nature of where Jesse
Prince is today. Because he essentially relapsed to his old ways, the
ways he was before Scientology. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  To me, as a Dane, it seems very American, many of the
things that you've spoken about. Is this also going on in Denmark? 
JESSE PRINCE:  Yes, it very much is, but on a different level. It
happens in Denmark. People here are terrorized. I've come here as a
Scientologist myself and terrorized the mission holders which I spoke
about earlier. I'll just elaborate a little bit on exactly what
happened. These people were called in on a false premise that they
were gonna be given a new and wonderful briefing about the new
direction of Scientology's expansion. And when they were all brought
in the room, the door was locked, and they were screamed at for hours
and they were told to write down every bad thing that they did. And
then they were photographed exactly as criminals were--mug shots,
where they had to do a front profile, a side profile. They were put on
the Scientology e-meter and all the senior executives of Scientology
crowded around and screamed at the person at once--they call that
gang-bang sec checking. And then they were told to relinquish,
relinquish their bank accounts and pull out their check books and
empty their bank accounts, and then this money was taken--whoosh--very
quickly, and taken to Liechtenstein or Cyprus. And, um, that still
goes on. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  Also in Denmark?

JESSE PRINCE:  Yeah. And--that's what I'm talking about; it happened
in Denmark. That happened here in Denmark. The first time I came here,
that's what I came here to do.

TOM HEINEMANN:  Where exactly? Do you remember?

JESSE PRINCE:  Yes, it was at the Northern Hotel.

TOM HEINEMANN:  At Vesterbrogade in Copenhagen?

JESSE PRINCE:  Yes, and it went on for days; those people were kept
for days--not allowed to go home, not allowed to shower. The door was
locked. And a lot of them--you know, when--they came in happy and
smiling, thinking they were about to find out something; and when they
left, they looked like death. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  Scientology says that you will violate some
contractual obligations if you criticize Scientology, and they have no
wish to meet you because, as they say, as more than 10 years ago, you
left the organization and you were removed from all your duties. 

JESSE PRINCE:  Well, you know, that's the standard party line.
Scientology manufactures excuses for any shortcoming they could
possibly have or any kind of excuse that will seem plausible. But we
know, at least I've come to know and understand since being out of
Scientology, I realize and recognize once again that people are human,
that people make mistakes. But Scientology would be very hard pressed
to admit to mistakes. 

ARON MASON:  It seems like one of these things that he would come up
with, seeing as he has now said that he will keep saying stories about
us until we pay him off a large amount of money. He had nothing bad to
say about Scientology for years and voluntarily made good statements
about Scientology after he left; um, and then he came on hard times
financially and said he would start saying things and he did.

TOM HEINEMANN:  Scientology says, and I quote, "You will say anything
for money."

JESSE PRINCE:  That is outrageous, but Scientology is able to access
my bank records at any time that they want to, and see how I'm
spending my money and where my money is coming from. And they just
assume, this is coming from this one, this is coming from this one.
But prior to starting or speaking against Scientology, I had earlier
filed bankruptcy on some businesses and some situations that I was in,
and I created a new business; I was actually an art dealer selling
art. And I was actually doing quite well with these businesses. I
started speaking out against Scientology, and they went around to
every one of my associates and businesses and persons and tried to get
them to speak disparagingly about me, or to find some sensitive
information or something to get me with.

ARON MASON:  We don't want to be in a position where we're talking
about this matter, but we need to defend ourselves, and that is what
we are forced to do, in part because of the allegations he raised. We
did not start this conflict with Mr. Prince. We did not--we don't want
to be in a conflict with Mr. Prince. We did not make allegations
against him; he made allegations against us and we were forced to

JESSE PRINCE:  You don't sue for actual offenses, you sue to utterly
ruin and destroy a person financially. And even a person of middle
class stature or even slightly upper middle class cannot afford to
fight with an organization that has a billion dollars plus to play
with. And unfortunately in a lot of countries, justice can be bought. 

ARON MASON:  Mr. Prince can say whatever critical things he wants to
say. Our concern is with him divulging confidential information. But
we also do not like to be in the business of suing people. We don't
sue people whenever we can avoid doing so. 

TOM HEINEMANN:  Can't you see the reason, the reasonable understanding
that Scientology--they claim it's a religion, and they are fighting
for keeping it a religion; they are fighting for their right to think
what they think of.

JESSE PRINCE:  Well, you know, I'm sure that there's a bit of that
going on and everyone has the liberty and freedom to think and believe
what they want to. But when it crosses the line of people actually
dying or being intimidated or, you know, private investigators put on
them or, you know, passing out to the neighbors information like you
got on me, through the neighborhood just solely to intimidate--that
crosses the line. You can believe whatever you want to but your
actions must be in accordance with the laws, rules and regulations of
the land. And Scientology doesn't quite agree with that.

TOM HEINEMANN:  You've been there for 16 years. Is Scientology a

JESSE PRINCE:  No, by no stretch of the imagination is Scientology a
religion. It's actually--the bulk of Scientology--in my opinion, I
would say 70% of Scientology is built on intelligence--intelligence
practices as they were being practiced in the 1950s Cold War era,
which is the mentality of L. Ron Hubbard. 


Sue, SP4(:), listed on the Scieno Sitter list 5 times!


"It will take a *long* time to find another enemy
with the combination of evil and incompetence
you see in Scientology."--Keith Henson